evangelist with a gun

[Charys]

In this dream last night an internationally known evangelist phoned me and asked me to help him find some young girls dressed in white to help him with a sermon illustration for a meeting that night. There didn't seem anything untoward in his request. It was like he wanted to include the children. I told him I knew of two 8 year olds, but he said he actually needed two ten year olds and that he was really excited about the revelation the Lord had given him about a scripture verse. Something about Esthers in the New Testament. I asked him which translation of the Bible he was using.

Just then there was the sound of an explosion. I could hear people shouting and a baby crying but the evangelist wasn't talking anymore.

I went to his house to look for him. When I got there he was seated at the kitchen table with his daughter, who looked to be about 10 years old and was named Esther.

This was odd and stood out. The floor in the house was made of pink velvet material covered with white lace. Pretty, but very feminine and very fragile.

I noticed a rifle leaning up against the cupboards.

Then there were other men (also in ministry, I think) at the table. They were there for a meeting which I appeared to be interrupting.

When I saw the gun I , "It was you who started the explosion!" (I was mad.) The men just shrugged and said something about his embarassing tendency to play with the power and went back to their meeting.

Again I asked him which verses he wanted to use and he said, "Ephesians. The Transition Version."

[dborah777]

Hey Charys,

Talk about "Guns and Roses!" WOW! I WISH I could interpret this one... How-so-never (I made that word up), try as I might, I hear three things: (1) Wolves in sheeps clothing and (2) satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light, and (3) terrorist activity!

Wiki said this about the book of Ephesians:

The book of Ephesians was a letter written by Paul to the Christian congregation in Ephesis, but it is appropriate for us because it gives instruction on many aspects of Christian life. We see many distressing problems in the world and this book can help us with sound advice, if we apply it's direction. Paul gives counsel to children on how they ought to conduct themselves esp toward their elders, and parents are instructed on the training of children. The requirements of a Christian husband are outlined as well as how a wife should regard her husband. True Christians are counseled on maintaining unity, and showing love, even though the world around them is wicked. Paul explains how christians are to put on the "new personality" and what is involved in doing so. We come to understand God's personality and what kind of persons ought we to be in order to please Him. -Ephesians 4:24-32; 6:1-4; 5:3-5, 15-20, 22-33.

Now you now the deal, I could be wayyyyyyyyyyyy off base -- so toss if you can't work with any of this!

[peggyo]

Hi Charys:

What happened to the gospel of peace!?

Just a few thoughts, not an interpretation. I believe the dream is a call to prayer, specifically for this man in your dream.

Possibly the dream is giving you a road map of how to pray. The phrase power complex comes to mind, really the same thing as control. I'm believing the 10-year-old daughter Esther (star) to be symbolic of his ministry. Strange that he requests 2 more 10-year-old girls to accompany him in his special teaching in Ephesians. I'm believing this to be a request for the discernment and redemption (Two 10 year olds equaling 20) that he needs regarding his own life/ministry, or possibly they represent 2 other ministries of discernment that will come alongside to be of assistance--that are very pure (the white clothing) ministries.

I also believe praying Ephesians for him/ministry may be beneficial. I believe the revelation he is talking about--Esthers in the new testament--is something that needs to be prayed through for him.

Wonder if the pink velvet floor cover is a picture of the evangelist's heart? Or possibly it is the foundation on which he started.

Ephesus was the church that was scolded for leaving its first love, yes?

I will add my prayers to yours!

(Please disregard if this does not feel right to you!)
Peggy O.

P.S.: Feel somehow too this dream has personal meaning for you--regarding an Esther calling to "bring salvation to God's people."

[Charys]

Thank you both. You have given me more things to think about.

Now this is why you should write your dreams down. I just checked my 3 a.m. scribblings and realized there was an important element I left out of this posting.

When the dream started I was at a feast provided by this man for his staff (No, I don't work for him --in fact I have only ever seen him in person once about 2 1/2 years ago, but when he prayed for me I passed out and fell to the floor, something Presbyterians are not in the habit of doing.)

The meal was like I imagine a buffet on a cruise ship must be like, with piles of great exotic food. The banquet cost $17.50/plate. (cheap, considerng...) so what is the significance of 17.50?

After the banquet I dreamed about him phoning me etc.

After going to his house to see if he was OK and him telling me about Ephesians in the Transition version I returned to the banquet hall. Nearly everyone was gone after the gun incident. People had apparently filled up on rich desserts first and had thrown plastic-wrapped plates full of good nutritious food in the garbage. There were garbage cans over-flowing with food. I saw a few scattered people with plates of nice healthy salad and fruit. I was hungry but when I asked where they got it, they showed me a service counter that was way too high to see the top of, six or seven feet high. It was possible to ease a plate over the edge, but not too see what was on the plate until you pulled it down.

The pink/lace floor in his house speaks to me of being ultra-feminine, as if the foundation of this kitchen is associated with a little girl's ultra girly girl princess style bedroom. Is the foundation of this ministry supported by women and girls?

Peggyo, I think you're on to something about an Esther calling. The verses in Eph. that stood out to me were in 2:10 and on (ooh 2 ten year olds?) about being created for good works, followed immediately about God's plan to bring Jews and Gentiles together as one new man. I don't know if this is a calling for me, or a calling to prepare the next generation of young girls --the Esthers born for such a time as this.

[dance-in-the-son]

It seems that some people who walk in miracles, signs and wonders sometimes get caught up in it so much that it is more of a focus than the intimacy with the Lord and it leads to sin and possible disaster...I beleive this a call to prayer for this evangelist that he will continue to be drawn into an intimate relationship with Jesus because that is what fuels ministry and keeps it sustained without being led astray so to speak. I am not sure this is an interp but it does seem like this person may be hungry for power (the supernatural) We have to be more captivated by the relationship with Jesus more than anything else...this is the only way we will grow and be led by him.

[dance-in-the-son]

Wondering if this has anything to do with your dream...my friend emailed me regarding the following which resembles part of your dream...please ponder in prayer...

This is the Biblical season of Purim. This is the time where Esther and all of Israel fasted 3 days for the salvation and deliverance of their people group. This is while they were in captivity. This is also dealing with the Prince of Persia (which is the modern day Iran) who continuously threatens to destroy Israel and is well on its way to have nuclear capability.

We can ask the Lord what He would have us to pray.
We can begin praying foundational prayers. The Lord's Prayer and Eph. 1:16-23.

[Charys]

Wondering if this has anything to do with your dream...

This is the Biblical season of Purim. This is the time where Esther and all of Israel fasted 3 days for the salvation and deliverance of their people group. This is while they were in captivity. This is also dealing with the Prince of Persia (which is the modern day Iran) who continuously threatens to destroy Israel and is well on its way to have nuclear capability.
.

I did not know this. Thank you, Dance.

[peggyo]

Hi again Charys:

I'm responding to the rest of the information in your dream.

The "feast" you attend is lacking in foundations. Just lavish treats for the most part are appreciated. I like that you are searching (like a good grandmother) for some "real" food, but it is hard to get to and you have to reach for it and at that cannot see even to make a choice. Thankfully a few others (probably grandmothers also!) are partaking of real spiritual nutrition. Your search for fruit may be a search for the fruit of the spirit.

We all know, eating a steady diet of this will make our diet out of balance and would seem the banqueting going on will keep one malnourished, although very happy (content with life!). Looks like the ministry is feeding into the wrong desires of people.

The price of the meal--17 dollars--17 can be immaturity. And the cost of this kind of banqueting would seem to be immaturity and lack of spiritual good health. I wonder if the 50 cents (as maybe in common sense!) has to do with being careful to not take our God given freedoms and liberties too far. Think of all the time, money, energy that got wasted when something of true spiritual benefit could have been "consumed." All the lavishness seems to lead to horrible spiritual waste and probably lack of gratitude as well.

The pink velvet floor covering and the princess motif--possibly this ministry has built itself on that kind of spirit--everything plush and frilly and lavish, lacking in maturity (childish) but the idea of needing to have the very best of everything to feel special because of its royalness and its kin status with the King. Little pricesses bring to mind an untouchability, unaccountability and incorrectability, because how could anyone possibly deny the precious little perfect princess child/ministry everything she wants, needs, desires and deserves.

Maybe it is going to take a different kind of Esther to combat (spiritually speaking only!) this spoiled princess star Esther, which I'm guessing is symbolic for the old testament Esther of the Bible. A new testament Esther is what is needed. I'm not exactly sure what that means.

In my searching on the internet about Esther and the meaning of your dream, I came across something that put quite a different twist on the traditional telling of the Esther story. It put the old Testament Esther in not such a great light. Maybe the old testament Esther needs redeeming? I'll private message you with that tomorrow.

Just some thoughts to inspire you in your prayers...
God bless U!
PO

[charlie]

"Ephesians. The Transition Version."

This struck me Charys...I am not sure of which evangelist you speak but if it who I sense it is then this speaks of the season he is in TRANSITION...by God's grace lets pray that the use and abuse of power will be relegated to the past...NO BIG GUNS NEEDED in the Kingdom of God...humble servants...but yes the frivolous self seeking greed at the feast is equally needing to transition for true seekers seek the food which will build them up...

For such a time as this is a theme of Esther...who herself was caught up in a time of transition for her people...

Grace
charlie

[Charys]

Thank you so much Peggy and Charlie. You have been so helpful. I have been praying for him and also for an understanding of Esther and Ephesians. Esther can indeed be interpreted in different ways. I found this overview of Ephesians by Martyn Lloyd-Jones which explains a lot to me.

I think I get it!

I am realizing that so very very much depends on an understanding of one's identity in Christ. We are trying to teach our young people this. My friends having been praying about this. It is central! Our actions improve with the renewing of our minds when we understand who we are, our position in Christ and our calling. If we understand that we are a royal priesthood who can boldly approach the throne of God because of his great love and the mercy he extends to us, the possiblities are limitless.

It is saying to people who are Esthers just kicking around the palace of Christianity picking out the goodies at the smorgasbord of the King's bounty, "Good grief, girl!. Do you see the injustice going on in the world around you? Do you know who you are and your position and why you are here now? Do you know you are in a unique position to actually do something bout it?"

Lloyd-Jones says:
“. . . we can say of the first three chapters that the Apostle is reminding these Ephesians . . . who they are, what they are, and how they have become what they are. That is his theme. All the major doctrines of the Christian faith are to be found in these first three chapters . . .

But the Apostle desires the Ephesians to understand above all else the privileges that belong to such a life . . . if we but realized the exalted character of what he calls our ‘high calling’, the whole situation would be transformed. He writes three chapters to bring them face to face with this teaching.

Then, having done that, the Apostle begins to appeal to them, and plead with them to live in a manner that is worthy of their calling. Such is the apostolic method. Paul never starts with morality and behaviour . . .

Paul therefore argues, Because you are God’s dear children, you do not behave as other people, there is something special about you, and you show this constantly in your demeanour . . .

Paul’s argument is that as we are filled with the Holy Spirit we must live in a way that is unique, a thing we can never do unless we are filled with the Spirit...

Then the Apostle proceeds to say that we are all to be subject one to another, and he works that out in three main respects. Wives are to be subject to their husbands, children are to be subject to their parents, servants are to be subject to their masters. But he always puts it in a doctrinal manner...

Paul always deals with the two sides. He tells the servants, who were slaves in those days, how they are to behave; he tells the masters also to remember ‘that your Master also is in heaven, neither is there respect of persons with him’. In these ways Paul shows how, in life’s various relationships, this ‘life in the Spirit’ manifests itself.

Having done all that, the Apostle now says ‘Finally, my brethren’, as if to say, Now in the light of all I have been telling you about yourselves, and of the kind of life you have to live, is that all? ‘No’, he says, ‘there is still one other matter.’ That is the matter he now introduces for our consideration. He cannot stop at the end of the ninth verse in chapter 6, and for this reason, that we do not live this Christian life in a vacuum. It is not just a matter of, ‘Well, there it is all set out for you; now go and do it.’ There is another matter that must be considered, there is another factor that in a sense Paul has not mentioned yet, namely, the mighty opposition to Christian living which we all inevitably encounter in this world of time.
That is the subject Paul introduces here. He has reminded us of what we are, he has shown us the possibilities that belong to our new position, and there is no limit, no end, to them. ‘That ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.’ ‘That ye might apprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge.’ Limitless! endless! ‘Oh,’ you say, ‘how wonderful!’ Wait a minute! says Paul. Let me remind you that you have to live that kind of life in a world in which there is a tremendous power working against you, that you will be engaged in a terrible conflict with the devil and all his forces. (like Esther and Mordecai vs. Haaman -my note)If you do not realize that, he says, and take the appropriate action with respect to it, you will undoubtedly and inevitably be defeated. “
Wow. Who knew Esther is in Ephesians.

[dborah777]

It is saying to people who are Esthers just kicking around the palace of Christianity picking out the goodies at the smorgasbord of the King's bounty, "Good grief, girl!. Do you see the injustice going on in the world around you? Do you know who you are and your position and why you are here now? Do you know you are in a unique position to actually do something bout it?"

WOW! NOW THAT'S POWERFUL AND I CAN'T SPEAK FOR ANYBODY ELSE -- THIS SURE SPEAKS TO ME...

[Charys]

I think I got off track here. I was probably misled by a judgmental attitude about this evangelist. I don't think it's about praying to correct this guy at all. (although prayer for him wouldn't hurt)

I think now the evangelist represents Jesus. The gun I understood, even in the dream, to be a demonstration of power. I presumed it was a misuse of power since I didn't see a need for it.

Can I be honest and say I don't understand why God shows up with demonstrations of power the way he does sometimes? It can be embarrassing to try to explain to other people. It confuses me. It surprises and shocks me. It interrupts my tidy theology sermonettes. (I was explaining to him that Esther is NOT in the New Testament and asking him what translation he was using when the gun went off, after all.) It can tell me to shut up and listen.

And it makes me go look for him.

It stretches me to reach for more understanding -more nutritious stuff.

I wonder too if sometimes the demonstrations of power can be a kind of shooting over the bow of the enemy, or shooting into the air as a call to arms and a warning to the enemy to back off.

[Jen]

The gun I understood, even in the dream, to be a demonstration of power

Charys.. I am so glad you said this. Before I read your post, but had just read the title, that is the impression I had also.. that the gun symbolic of power, and something easily misconstrued and used for the wrong reasons/motives.

a gun also can be a signal to start the race.

"Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdest the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore frome whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." --Revelation 2:1-7

Esther made it to her place as the Queen of Persia, because of HOW she acted in the prepartion time. She inquired of the kings likes and dislikes to Hegai. She made his desires..hers.
If you love someone with all of your heart and truly want to be a part of something.. you will conform to their image.. in our case it is the image of Jesus..

also the rifle leaning up against the cupboards spoke to me, cupboards are where food and dishes are kept. The rifle (the power) needs to be moved to get to the food. We can't just have all power and no food.. we can't just have all food and no power.
We must have both.


the 17.50 also stood out to me so I am copying from Susan's website.. maybe when reading one of these scriptures something will pop at you..

17 : Spiritual order; incomplete; immature. (Gen. 37: 2; 1 Chron. 25: 5; Jer. 32: 9)

50:Pentecost; Holy Spirit; jubilee; liberty; freedom. (Lev. 23: 16; 25: 10-11; Ex. 26: 5-6; 2 Kings 2: 7; Num. 8: 21)


I also looked up the meaning of transition.. this was copied from the Websters Online Dictionary..

passage from one state, stage, subject, or place to another : change b : a movement, development, or evolution from one form, stage, or style to another
2 a : a musical modulation b : a musical passage leading from one section of a piece to another
3 : an abrupt change in energy state or level (as of an atomic nucleus or a molecule) usually accompanied by loss or gain of a single quantum of energy

let me know if any of it bears witness.
shalom to you!
Jen

[Charys]

Yes Jen. It bears witness.

Although the $17.50 doesn't quite sit right yet. Hmmm It struck me that this feast came at a price which the "evangelist" paid. It was free to his followers.

On God's Arithmetic site it says 17 can mean resurrection. The price Jesus paid was not just death on the cross. If he had just died it all would have ended there. It was his resurrection and victory over death that provided the feast for us. Yes, 50 can mean the jubilee year when debts are cancelled and slaves are freed.

I have been thinking about what you said about the preparations Esther made. In some of my research it was pointed out that Esther did not enter some Miss America-type beauty contest, like some of the "nice" versions of the story or the Christian family movies imply. In this case the contestants were required to sleep with the judge. They prepared thoroughly for this aspect too. It was a total physical submission and there was no going back. After this test, they were ineligible to ever marry anyone else. It was a complete commitment.

And transition also means an abrupt change in energy state on the molecular level? I'm going to check with my husband, the physicist,..............OK I'm back. He says it's the basis for the production or absorption of light. hmmm

Thank you for your help.

[dborah777]

OH MY GOODNESS, Charys, this blew me away:

I have been thinking about what you said about the preparations Esther made. In some of my research it was pointed out that Esther did not enter some Miss America-type beauty contest, like some of the "nice" versions of the story or the Christian family movies imply. In this case the contestants were required to sleep with the judge. They prepared thoroughly for this aspect too. It was a total physical submission and there was no going back. After this test, they were ineligible to ever marry anyone else. It was a complete commitment.

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY FASCINATING! I TYPE IN CAPITAL LETTERS WHEN I GET EXCITED -- AND I AM EXCITED ABOUT THIS REVELATION! (at least it's a revelation to me)... Where can I read more about this?